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Питање: По вашем мишљењу, шта исповедају Копти, Јермени, Етиопљани и остали нехалкидонци? Да у Христу:
Постоји само Божанство (Божанска), а не и човештво (људска природа) - 2 (16.7%)
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Реално постоји само Божанство, а у теорији, постоји и човештво - 3 (25%)
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Ништа од претходно описаног - 2 (16.7%)
Не знам шта они исповедају - 2 (16.7%)
Укупно гласова: 12

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Аутор Тема: Копти, Јермени, Етиопљани...  (Прочитано 11444 пута)
0 чланова и 1 гост прегледају ову тему.
Dionysios
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« Одговор #225 послато: Јун 09, 2010, 10:25:02 »

Ок, Нећу се више јављам на овој теми.
Јеси ли барем прочитао текстове које се Брат потрудио овде поставити Молим?
Читам их. Нисам све, добар дио јесам.
Искрено, има неких ствари које ми се и даље чине климавим, али прочитаћу бар још неке текстове пда ћу дати коментар.

И немојте се одмах ни ви оштрити на мене, ако ћемо да дијалогизујемо ствар.

ма, куј се бре оштри?  Зеленко
кад год дош'о, добродош'о на тему  Намигивање

озбиљно, брате, баш бих волео да чујем коментаре на текстове са ове теме... небитно да ли су про или контра... и немој да те завара мој "ангажман" овде... ја заправо имам питања, а не одговоре. и ово што сам до сада писао, више се може посматрати као питања, а не као ставови... Намигивање
« Последња измена: Јун 09, 2010, 10:31:42 Dionysios » Сачувана

Ходите к Мени сви који сте уморни и натоварени и Ја ћу вас одморити. Узмите јарам Мој на себе и учите се од Мене, јер сам кротак и смирен у срцу и наћићете покој душама својим. Јер, јарам је Мој благ и бреме је Моје лако.
(Mт. 11, 28-29)
Dionysios
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« Одговор #226 послато: Јун 13, 2010, 03:51:38 »

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/Yf2uESP68Qk&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1&amp;&quot; type=&quot;application/x-shockwave-flash&quot; allowscriptaccess=&quot;always&quot; allowfullscreen=&quot;true&quot; width=&quot;480&quot; height=&quot;385&quot;&gt;&lt;/embed&gt;&lt;/object&gt;" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/Yf2uESP68Qk&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1&amp;&quot; type=&quot;application/x-shockwave-flash&quot; allowscriptaccess=&quot;always&quot; allowfullscreen=&quot;true&quot; width=&quot;480&quot; height=&quot;385&quot;&gt;&lt;/embed&gt;&lt;/object&gt;</a>

The Hymn of Holy Etchmiadzin
 
Etchmiadzinn ee Horeh yev looys parratz unt numa,
Tsaynk hunchetzeen santaramedk antuntotz.
Desyal uzlooys medz Hayrabedeen Kreekoree,
Badmer tzundzootyamp havadatzyal arkayeen.
Yegayk sheenestsook soorp uzkhoranun loosoh,
Kanzee ee suma dzakyats mez looys ee Hayastan ashkharhee.

The Only-Begotten descended from the Father, and the light of
glory was with him;
Voices resounded in the depths of Hades.
The patriarch Gregory saw the great light,
And joyfully told of it to the believing king.
Come let us build the sanctuary of light,
For therein shone forth light unto us in the land of Armenia.



The vision mentioned in the hymn was the vision of St. Gregory the Illuminator, in which Christ appeared to him.  The newsletter describes the vision, and how the name Etchmiadzin is derived from it:

"The name Etchmiadzin is a compound word in Armenian consisting
of two elements: etch, meaning “descent” and Miadzin, meaning “the Only
Begotten.
” St. Gregory the Illuminator, the enlightener of the Armenian na-
tion and the founder of the catholicate as an institution, saw in a vision Christ
descending from heaven and striking the ground with a golden hammer. The
site was next to the court of King Drtad III in Vagharshabad, the present-day
Etchmiadzin. Gregory built an altar on the site of the descent and surrounded
it by a wall. The structure was soon converted to a church and represented the
earliest phase of the present-day cathedral."

« Последња измена: Јун 13, 2010, 04:02:22 Dionysios » Сачувана

Ходите к Мени сви који сте уморни и натоварени и Ја ћу вас одморити. Узмите јарам Мој на себе и учите се од Мене, јер сам кротак и смирен у срцу и наћићете покој душама својим. Јер, јарам је Мој благ и бреме је Моје лако.
(Mт. 11, 28-29)
Dionysios
Искусан
****
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« Одговор #227 послато: Јун 24, 2010, 08:08:02 »

http://66.208.37.78/index.jsp?sid=1&id=4094&pid=59
Armenian Church Councils

In the early days of the Universal Church there arose a need to convene the hierarchy of the Church in a formal setting. The purpose was to make decisions regarding dogmatic issues facing the Church and to address the dissenters and sect movements.

The first three meetings convened by the Universal Church are called Ecumenical Councils. During her history the Armenian Church participated in and accepted the decisions of these three Ecumenical Councils - the first council was the Nicaean Council held in 325 AD, the second was the Constantinople Council in 381 AD and the third the Ephesus Ecumenical Council in 431 AD. All are recognized on our church calendar.

Councils which were local in nature whose decisions didn’t affect the Universal Church but were ratified only by one or several churches belonging to the Universal Church are called local or particular councils. Some local councils which are recognized together with their canons by the Armenian Church are the following: the Councils of Ankiuria (314), Neocaesarea (approx. 319), Gangra (approx. 340), Assyrian (or of Assyria) Antioch (341), Laodicean of Phrygia (343-381 (360)), Sardica (a. 343).

Besides attending the Ecumenical and Local Councils the Armenian Church convened many National Church Councils, where high-ranking church clergy gathered to make decisions over the inner order and structure of the Church, internal issues facing the church, and to answer various other questions. After the first three Ecumenical Councils it is through these National Church Councils that the Armenian Church expressed her official viewpoint on the theological, rite, canonical, administrative-organizational and other issues of the church.

Listed below is brief information about the Armenian Church’s most significant councils.

Councils of Ashtishat (352, 354, 435)

Convened by Nerses the Great in the city of Ashtishat, the Council was assembled to discuss several issues concerning the church and to review general aspects of Christian doctrine. The second part of the meeting was held In 374 to continue with the discussion of the same items. For the purpose of general regulation the councils at first accepted the canons called apostolic canons and then established definite canons for local needs. Here is a review of some that are significant:

    * To open orphanages and homes for the poor in suitable places.
    * To open inns in villages and provinces, so that the guests and foreigners wouldn’t be left without a place to dwell.
    * To open hospitals and leprosariums. For these benevolent institutions the council set up taxes from crops, cattle, etc., supervisors were appointed ‎for the trust work.
    * To prohibit the burial of the dead with heathen traditions; the tearing of clothes, roaring loudly, but to believe in Resurrection and in the life after death.
    * To be faithful to each other in married life, to avoid the marriages between the relatives.
    * To stay away from alcoholism, prostitution, killing, etc.
    * To establish monasteries and convents.
      

The 3rd council meeting was called in 435 by the efforts of Catholicos Sahag I and Mesrob Mashtots to discuss the decisions of the 3rd Universal Council of Ephesus and accept their decisions.

Shahapivan Council (444)

It was convened by Catholicos Saint Hovsep I. 20 bishops, many eminent clergymen, as well as the Govenor Vahan (Marzpan), Commander Vahan, Vardan Mamikonian, and numerous other noblemen in the Middle Ages in Armenia (nakharars) were in attendance.

The Council is known in history for the strictness of its decisions, especially towards the members of the Mtsghni sect who became very active after the death of Saints Mashtots and Sahag. The Council accepted 20 canons the greater part of which concern the clergy; Bishops, Reverend Fathers and Deacons. It regulated their inner life and established severe punishments in cases of violation. The acceptable degrees of marriage were established (after 4 generations, canon Number 13). It strictly prohibited both laymen and clergy from turning to witches and sorcerers. The canons concerning the members of Mtsghni sect were also strict. (Canon Numbers 19 -20).

The severity of this council was supposed to bring an end to the activities and events which were dangerous for the newly established church.

The Shahapivan council initiated the political rights of the Armenian Church and as such can be considered the first code of law in the Armenian nation.

Artashat Council (449)

The Council of Artashat was convened as an answer to Hazkert’s letter. With the help of the Armenians and the Armenian Church, the nation prepared for the battle of Vardan and his Companions. The content of that letter is represented in Eghishe’s History in detail.


The First Council of Dvin (506)


The synod of the Armenian, Georgian, and Caspian-Albanian bishops assembled at Dvin during the reign of Catholicos Babken I. The participation of the Catholicoi of Georgia and Albania were set to make clear the position of the churches concerning the Chalcedonic Council. The "Book of Epestles" mentions that 20 bishops, 14 laymen, and many nakharars participated in the council. The involvement in the council discussion of different level of lay persons seemed to be a general rule in Armenia.

The Second Council of Dvin (551)

The second Council of Dvin was ordered by Catholicos Nerses II of Bagrevand where definite rules and regulations were established and the Armenian Church Calendar was set.

18 bishops and nakharars took part in the council. The Chalcedonic Council decisions were officially denied during this Council and thus the ties with the Chalcedonic Churches were severed. The observance of the feast of Holy Nativity and Theophany was reinstated for January 6. The handwritten document, "The Vow of the Unanimity of the Armenian Land" was accepted. Nestorianism, and the Messelians and the Paulicians were all refuted and strict decrees were issued against them. The previously accepted 37 canons were established in the "Regulation of Armenia" as the canons of "Catholicos Nerses and Bishop Nershapouh of Mamikonians". Here are few of them: the 16th canon prohibits women to stand beside the priest and conduct services. According to the 19th canon in cases where the priest reveals the confession of someone, he is to renounce his holy orders. The 29th canon bans giving lodging and shelter to the members of any sect.

The Third Council of Dvin (609-610)

The 3rd Council of Dvin was convened during the reign of Catholicos Abraham I of Aghbatank and Prince Smbat Bagratooni, with clergymen and laymen participating. The Georgian Church was split from the Armenian Church and the Catholicos had repeatedly tried to turn to Catholicos Kurion of the Georgian Church. The council was convened to clarify the relationship of the Armenian Church towards the Georgian Church. After the Council, Catholicos Abraham wrote an encyclical letter addressed to the people where he blamed Kurion and his adherents for the split. The Council never set up canons; it only deprived Georgians from taking communion in the Armenian Church.

The Council of Karin (633)

Emperor Heraclius and Catholicos Yezr I met to discuss Armenian Byzantine church relations. The dogma of the one nature of Christ was accepted in the council as a bridge between Chalcedony and those who didn’t accept it. But later this dogma was renounced in the 6th Ecumenical Council. It also found no dogmatic ground in Armenia. The letter which had been signed by Catholicos Yezr was more a political obligation than a religious conviction.

The Fourth Council of Dvin (645)

It was convened during the Pontificate of Nerses III of Tayk. Seventeen bishops and many nakharars took part in it. Twelve canons were accepted (in the decree known as "The Canon of the Holy Council of Dvin"). The decree contained canons regulating the inner life of the church; and it established rights for the leaders of the church.

The Fifth Council of Dvin (648)

It was convened during the reign of Nerses III of Tayk. All the bishops and nakharars took part in the Council. The Council was summoned to give an answer to the Byzantine Emperor’s letter concerning the adoption of Chalcedony. The Council also planned to prepare a manual of faith for the faithful so that they would be ready to respond to those who followed the beliefs of Chalcedon. The Council also established twelve canons which regulated the rights and responsibilities of Bishops and the issue of financial provisions to the priests. In the sphere of marital rights it was stated to approve second marriages in cases where one of the spouses remained in oblivion and isolation for more than 7 years.

The First Council of Partav (709)

It was convened to discuss the matter of the Catholicos of Aghvank, Nerses Bakour, who was following the teachings of Chalcedon. Through the efforts of Catholicos Yeghia I, a confession message was created where the unanimity of the Armenian and Albanian churches concerning all the confession questions was established.

The Sixth Council of Dvin (719-720)

It was convened during the Pontificate of Hovhannes III of Odzoon. The council put the scattered canon decisions in the correct order and organized the "Regulations". 32 canons were established. Here the order of the services was regulated, some ritual canons were reestablished (Unlike the Greeks the observance of the Holy Nativity and Theophany and Epiphany was on the same day, on the 6th of January). Canons were set up against the sect movements of the Paulicians and Docetism. It was also ordered to revere the anointed cross and Savior images and to stay away from the members of sects (29th -30th canons).

The Council of Manazkert (719)

At this council some dogmatic questions were discussed which had been raised in the Assyrian Church, and led to divergence. The famous Armenian Theologian Translator Khosrovik took part in this Council. The goal of this council was to amend the divergences that had occurred between the two churches concerning the purity of the Savior’s body. The Assyrians accused the Armenians of following the teaching of Julian of Halicarnassus and the Armenians in their turn accused the Assyrians of following the teachings of Severus of Antioch.

The Council established 10 anathemas which refuted the teachings of Julian of Halicarnas and Severus of Antioch and their followers and reestablished the orthodox teaching of the Holy Trinity. As a result an alliance was created between the Armenian and Assyrian churches.

The Second Council of Partev (771)

It was convened by Sion I of Bavonk. The representatives of the Aghvank church also took part in the Council as Partav is the Headquarters of the Albanian Catholicosate. The council adopted 24 canons which concerned the church order and the rights and responsibilities of the clergymen. For example the 11th canon prohibited marriages with pagans, the 13th Canon - prohibits the second marriage, the 16th canon prohibits the marriage between relatives up to the 4th generation. The 24th canon established the canon of the Old Testament.

The Council of Shirakavan

The primary reason for convening the Council of Shirak was a letter to the Armenians received from Patriarch Photius of Constantinople concerning the adoption of chalcedony. Patriarch Photius had repeatedly tried to convert the Armenians living in his territory to Chalcedony and had unleashed persecution against Armenians. Catholicos Zachariah I of Dzak wrote a letter to Patriarch Photius stating that the Armenian faith was in agreement with the decisions of the first three Ecumenical Councils. In his reply letter Patriarch Photius tried to prove the orthodox character of Chalcedony and once again suggested that the Armenians should adopt Chalcedony. The Council of Shirak renounced Patriarch Photius’ suggestion and after stating the faith of the Armenian Church in 15 anathema, sent the reply to Patriarch Photius.

The First and Second Councils of Hark (1002, 1051)

These two councils refuted the Tondrakian movement. The first Council anathematized Bishop Hakob of Hark after accusing him of being adherent to the Tondrakian movement. The actions of these councils were of strategic significance in stopping the further spread of sect movement in Armenia.

The Council of Black Mountain (1114)

This council was to solve the disputes which arose regarding the Patriarchal See. The election and authority of Catholicos’ Grigor Pahlavouni was called into question by Bishop David Artsrouni of Aghtamar, because of the Catholicos young age. Bishop David was ordained Catholicos of the opposite See by several bishops who were in agreement with Bishop David. The council gathered the attention and participation of 2,500 clergymen, princes, nakharars and laymen. The council officially recognized Catholicos Grigor I Pahlavouni as the legal Catholicos. Bishop David could not agree with the decision of the Council and established the Catholicosate of Aghtamar. The action of this Council was to require that the election of the Armenian Catholicos could be considered valid only upon the agreement or ratification of the four Episcopal Sees of Armenia (Bjni, Haghpat, Artaz, Datev).

The Council of Rhomkla (1179)

The Council of Rhomkla was convened during the Pontificate of Catholicos Grigor IV Tgha to discuss the issue of unity between the Armenian and Greek churches. The relations between the two churches were strained, and the Greek Church demanded the adoption of a Chalcedonic Resolution and the additional Ecumenical Councils, which were not recognized or accepted by the Armenian Church. The Armenians were against accepting such a condition. 33 clergymen from Great Hayk and Cilicia were present at the Council. The Catholicos of Aghvank and the representatives of the Assyrian Patriarchate were also in attendance. The Bishop of Tarson Nerses of Lambron, the protector of peace and concord was present at the Council. On the one hand this Council condemned Monophysitism on the other hand it renounced also Diophysitism, the teaching that preached two wills, two influences, remaining faithful to the traditional belief of the Armenian Church.

The Council of Tarson (1196)

The Council of Tarson was convened during the Pontificate of Grigor VI Apirat, to continue the discussions on the problems between the Greek and Armenian Churches. The Council members adopted several suggestions offered by the Roman Catholic Church. Nerses of Lambron was the primary supporter of these actions, who at that time saw their acceptance as the only way path to reconciliation. But some points that were suggested by the Armenians to the Roman Catholic Church were never adopted. Also noteworthy is that no Archimandrites from Greater Armenia took part in the Council.

The Church Councils of Sis

The Church Councils of Sis were convened during the XIII-XIV centuries in the city Sis, which was then the capital city of the Armenian Kingdom in Cilicia.

The First Council of Sis (1204)

The First Council of Sis was convened upon the initiative of Catholicos Hovhannes VI of Sis, during which questions regarding the rituals were discussed and eight canons were adopted. The Armenian brother Princes Ivane and Zachariah were among the most influential figures of the time and Ivane’s conversion to the Greek faith posed a serious threat for the independence of the Armenian Church both in the Church and political spheres. With this in mind, Catholicos Hovhannes VI agreed to discuss the suggestions of Zachariah at the Council. The Council adopted eight canons, which allowed the following:

    * Canon A – To allow for the Divine Liturgy to be celebrated in the open air, under a tent as in the Georgian Church.
    * Canon B - To observe the feasts of Annunciation of the Holy Virgin Mary on the 6th of April, the Assumption of the Holy Mother of God on the 15th of August, and the Feast of the Exaltation of the Holy Cross on the 14th of September as in the Georgian Church.
    * Canon C - To adopt the tradition of paying tribute to icons.
    * Canon D - To offer the Divine Liturgy not only for those who rest in eternal sleep, but also for those who are alive, as in the Georgian, Greek and Assyrian Churches.
    * Canon E - To prohibit Armenian clergymen from eating meat in response to accusations the Georgian Church.
    * Canon F - To order the Armenian clergymen to live in cloisters and have no property.

These canons were adopted to guarantee the independence of the Armenian Church and to avoid further conflicts with the other Churches. But most of the Oriental Archimandrites refused to even hear the decisions of the Council, and the protest caused the clergy to divide broke into two factions.

In order to resolve the differences, Prince Zachariah called a Council in Ani with the participation of Oriental Archimandrites (among them Mkhitar Gosh). The Council renounced the decisions taken by Sis, and considered it an adoption of Chalcedony. However, Prince Zachariah continued to abide by the canons of the Council, implementing them for the Armenians serving in the Georgian army.

The Second Council of Sis (1243)

The Second Council of Sis was called to discuss questionable conduct which was being reflected in the actions of laymen and clergy. The Council adopted 24 canons in order to improve on the morals and principles of the people. Particularly the number of generation separation allowed for marriage between relatives was changed to 6 (the prior level had been 4). The bridegroom was to be a minimum of fourteen years of age, and the bride a minimum of twelve years of age. Prostitution and adultery were denounced.

The Third Council of Sis (1251)

The Third Council of Sis was devoted to the discussion of the teaching of the theological formula of Filioque, which had been presented by the Pope of Rome who requested that the theory be accepted. The Council did not come to a final answer and the Pope’s suggestion was addressed to the Oriental Archimandrites for discussion. The Oriental Archimandrites finally renounced and never adopted the formula.

The Fourth Council of Sis (1289)

The Fourth Council of Sis addressed a political problem rather than a church one. Catholicos Constantine II of Katouk resisted and opposed the suggestion of Pope Nicolas IV of Rome the adoption of the Roman faith by the Armenians. His rejection of the suggestion caused King Hethum and Bishop Grigor of Anavarz to convene the council and proclaim the Catholicos dethroned.

The Fifth Council of Sis (1307)

The Fifth Council of Sis discussed the suggestions of Pope Crèmes IV of Rome, the adoption of the Roman faith in exchange for rendering military assistance to Armenia. Under the pressure of King Levon IV and the newly elected Catholicos Constantine III of Caesarea, the Council adopted the Roman faith and, agreed to join the Roman Church. The oriental Archimandrites opposed the decision of the Council and did not obey. A period of rebellion began which was followed by the sixth Council of Sis and the Council of Adana.

The Sixth Council of Sis (1309)

The Sixth Council of Sis has held to specifically renounce the decisions of the 5th Council of Sis, whereby the Armenian Church was to join the Roman Catholic Church. The original decisions were never adopted by the Oriental Archimandrites and the decision was only enacted on paper.

The Seventh Council of Sis (1345)

The Seventh Council of Sis was convened by Mekhitar I of Grner. In expectation of receiving military assistance from the West it formally accepted the motion of the Pope of Rome to join the Catholic Church. When the assistance was not received, the opposition was strengthened and the decisions of the Council remained unfulfilled.

The Eighth Council of Sis

The Eight Council of Sis was summoned by King Constantine IV and Catholicos Mesrob I of Artaz. It abolished the decisions of the 6th Council of Sis and the Council of Adana and all the related changes. It re-established the message of remaining faithful to the beliefs of the Armenian Church.

The National Church Council of Etchmiadzin (1441)

This council was called to consider the transfer of the Patriarchal See from Sis to the original location of Vagharshapat, the Mother See of Holy Etchmiadzin. This put an end to the displacement of the Patriarchal See. It was returned to the Mother See of Holy Etchmiadzin, where it remains the headquarters of the worldwide Armenian Church and the location of the Catholicos of All Armenians up to the present day.

For further information on the National Councils of the Armenian Church, we suggest consulting the following works of literature:

Archbishop Malachia Ormanian, "Azkapatoom", Holy Etchmiadzin, vol. 1-4, 2001
Archbishop Malachia Ormanian, "The Church of Armenia", Yerevan, 1993
Michael Chamchiants, "The History of Armenia", vol. 1-3, Yerevan, 1985
Meliq Tankian, "The Armenian Church Rights", Shoushi, 1903
Archimandrite Yeznik Petrossian, "The History of the Armenian Church", part A, Holy Etchmiadzin, 1996
"Book of Epistles", Tbilisi, 1901
Book of Canons of Armenia, vol. 1-2, Yerevan, 1971
Christian Armenia, Encyclopedia, Yerevan, 2002
« Последња измена: Јун 24, 2010, 08:42:17 Dionysios » Сачувана

Ходите к Мени сви који сте уморни и натоварени и Ја ћу вас одморити. Узмите јарам Мој на себе и учите се од Мене, јер сам кротак и смирен у срцу и наћићете покој душама својим. Јер, јарам је Мој благ и бреме је Моје лако.
(Mт. 11, 28-29)
Dionysios
Искусан
****
Ван мреже Ван мреже

Пол: Мушкарац
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« Одговор #228 послато: Јун 28, 2010, 11:00:27 »

http://www.fatherzakaria.net

Nije u neposrednoj vezi sa Hristologijom, ali je sajt koji svakako zasluzuje paznju.
Rec je o ocu Zahariji, koptskom svesteniku (monahu) koji se bavi islamom.

Na sekciji "Books" nacicete mnogo zanimljivih tekstova....
Сачувана

Ходите к Мени сви који сте уморни и натоварени и Ја ћу вас одморити. Узмите јарам Мој на себе и учите се од Мене, јер сам кротак и смирен у срцу и наћићете покој душама својим. Јер, јарам је Мој благ и бреме је Моје лако.
(Mт. 11, 28-29)
васкрсија
Модератор
Ветеран
*****
На мрежи На мрежи

Пол: Жена
Поруке: 1947



« Одговор #229 послато: Јун 28, 2010, 11:30:07 »

Јесмо ли постали једна црква  Зеленко

Јави, не могу да читам оволике текстове (само да се поновим Смешко)
Сачувана

Dionysios
Искусан
****
Ван мреже Ван мреже

Пол: Мушкарац
Поруке: 730


http://eastofbyzantium.com


« Одговор #230 послато: Јул 20, 2010, 10:16:30 »

Јесмо ли постали једна црква  Зеленко

Јави, не могу да читам оволике текстове (само да се поновим Смешко)

Are we there yet?
Are we there yet?
Are we there yet?
Are we there yet?
 Зеленко
Нисмо, Васкрсија, нажалост. Нити видим да се нешто конкретно ради на том плану. Постоји свест на нашој страни о великој блискости са нехалкидонским Црквама као и свест о "извесним догматским разликама" с којима никако да покушамо да се ухватимо у коштац... Тужан

Већ сам више пута рекао, чини ми се да нам нехалкидонци нису на листи приоритета за дијалог... Тужан

Већ раније је поменуто да Православна Црква и нехалкидонске Цркве (као и Асиријска Црква Истока) сматрају Исака Нинивијског тј. Исака Сирина за свог светитеља.

Јуче сам сазнао за још два постхалкидонска светитеља која су нам заједничка:
- Свети Симеон Столпник (+459.)
- Свети Јован Лествичник (7 век)

p.s. Јесте ли видели ову вест (јесте мало застарела, али је занимљива)?

http://www.pravoslavnacrkva.ch/vesti/browse/4/article/naava-zaednichke-pravoslavne-molitve-u-katedrali-grossm//20/
05.09.09 | Из парохије
Најава заједничке православне молитве у катедрали Grossmünster

Фотографија са једне од прошлих литија
Фотографија са једне од прошлих литија
У четвртак, 11. септембра 2008 у славу и част Божијих угодника, Светих мученика Феликса, Регуле и Ексуперантиуса одржаће се заједничко вечерње богослужење православних цркава.

Грчка православна црква, Етиопска православна црква, Еритрејска православна црква, Индијска православна црква, Јерменска православна црква, Коптска православна црква, Румунска православна црква, Руска православна црква, Српска православна црква, Сиријска православна црква


Програм


18.15 Свечана литија креће од цркве Fraumünster, места страдања светитеља, све до њихове бивше гробне цркве, садашње Grossmünster, уз пратњу хора и литије са свећама и иконама
19.00 Вечерње богослужење на празник циришких светих мученика Феликса, Регуле и Ексуперантиуса
21.00  Послужење са специјалитетима Православних народа у Wasserkirche/Helmhaus


Добровољни прилог као и новац од продаје свећа намењени су за покривање трошкова православних цркава.
Преузмите флајер у ПДФ-формату

« Последња измена: Јул 20, 2010, 10:28:31 Dionysios » Сачувана

Ходите к Мени сви који сте уморни и натоварени и Ја ћу вас одморити. Узмите јарам Мој на себе и учите се од Мене, јер сам кротак и смирен у срцу и наћићете покој душама својим. Јер, јарам је Мој благ и бреме је Моје лако.
(Mт. 11, 28-29)
васкрсија
Модератор
Ветеран
*****
На мрежи На мрежи

Пол: Жена
Поруке: 1947



« Одговор #231 послато: Јул 21, 2010, 11:40:01 »

Јесмо ли постали једна црква  Зеленко

Јави, не могу да читам оволике текстове (само да се поновим Смешко)

Are we there yet?
Are we there yet?
Are we there yet?
Are we there yet?
 Зеленко
Нисмо, Васкрсија, нажалост. Нити видим да се нешто конкретно ради на том плану. Постоји свест на нашој страни о великој блискости са нехалкидонским Црквама као и свест о "извесним догматским разликама" с којима никако да покушамо да се ухватимо у коштац... Тужан



Тужан
Сачувана

Dionysios
Искусан
****
Ван мреже Ван мреже

Пол: Мушкарац
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http://eastofbyzantium.com


« Одговор #232 послато: Јул 27, 2010, 08:31:24 »

Богородице Дјево, на сиријски начин

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/vpMM9ZuRkKs&amp;amp;hl=en_US&amp;amp;fs=1&quot; type=&quot;application/x-shockwave-flash&quot; allowscriptaccess=&quot;always&quot; allowfullscreen=&quot;true&quot; width=&quot;480&quot; height=&quot;385&quot;&gt;&lt;/embed&gt;&lt;/object&gt;" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/vpMM9ZuRkKs&amp;amp;hl=en_US&amp;amp;fs=1&quot; type=&quot;application/x-shockwave-flash&quot; allowscriptaccess=&quot;always&quot; allowfullscreen=&quot;true&quot; width=&quot;480&quot; height=&quot;385&quot;&gt;&lt;/embed&gt;&lt;/object&gt;</a>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpMM9ZuRkKs
« Последња измена: Јул 27, 2010, 08:35:58 Dionysios » Сачувана

Ходите к Мени сви који сте уморни и натоварени и Ја ћу вас одморити. Узмите јарам Мој на себе и учите се од Мене, јер сам кротак и смирен у срцу и наћићете покој душама својим. Јер, јарам је Мој благ и бреме је Моје лако.
(Mт. 11, 28-29)
Ивица М.
Шта рећи?
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Пол: Мушкарац
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Ludo moja, zar ne znaš: divno je nemati plan!


« Одговор #233 послато: Јул 27, 2010, 10:54:57 »

У последњих неколико месеци сам имао прилике да упознам неке Копте. Просто је невероватно какви су то дивни људи и колико дубоко верују. И они се скроз осећају као да су једно с нама.
Сачувана

Не треба веровати ниједном експерименту док га не потврди теорија. (Артур Едингтон)

To you, Baldrick, the Renaissance was just something that happened to other people, wasn't it? (Blackadder)
ЕМАНУИЛ
Искусан
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_UtlTqfFpo


« Одговор #234 послато: Јул 27, 2010, 11:15:08 »

Naletio sam na ovaj DVD :

http://www.visionsandmiracles.com/index.html

Please check out my page for the new documentary, VISIONS AND MIRACLES: Out of the Land of Egypt. 100% of proceeds from the DVD will go to the Coptic Orthodox Church.

Evo ga i trejler:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8RtLC1AScs

Vidim pominju se kopti...

Сачувана

Страдање је вино којим Христос причешћује човека из путира љубави.
Dionysios
Искусан
****
Ван мреже Ван мреже

Пол: Мушкарац
Поруке: 730


http://eastofbyzantium.com


« Одговор #235 послато: Август 02, 2010, 06:58:43 »

Naletio sam na ovaj DVD :

http://www.visionsandmiracles.com/index.html

Please check out my page for the new documentary, VISIONS AND MIRACLES: Out of the Land of Egypt. 100% of proceeds from the DVD will go to the Coptic Orthodox Church.

Evo ga i trejler:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8RtLC1AScs

Vidim pominju se kopti...



E, upravo sam skinuo film! Ne da se pominju Kopti, nego je ceo film o Koptima i projavljivanju cudesa u danasnje vreme, mirotocenju ikona i mostiju koptskih svetitelja...

Tek cu da sednem i da natenane odgledam film..
Сачувана

Ходите к Мени сви који сте уморни и натоварени и Ја ћу вас одморити. Узмите јарам Мој на себе и учите се од Мене, јер сам кротак и смирен у срцу и наћићете покој душама својим. Јер, јарам је Мој благ и бреме је Моје лако.
(Mт. 11, 28-29)
Dionysios
Искусан
****
Ван мреже Ван мреже

Пол: Мушкарац
Поруке: 730


http://eastofbyzantium.com


« Одговор #236 послато: Август 07, 2010, 09:43:55 »

Fr. Paul Varghese kasnije je postao mitropolit Paulos Mar Gregorios. Vec smo ga pominjali ranije. Markantna licnost nehalkidonske zajednice u Indiji.

http://paulosmargregorios.info/English%20Articles/mabbug.htm
  The Christology of Philoxenos of Mabbug

Fr. Paul Varghese
   

        Contents

    Introduction

    *      Becoming and Assumption
    *      Becoming: Human and Divine
    *      Becoming and the holy Trinity

    Notes

Introduction

This paper tries only to select some aspects of the Christology of Philoxenos of Mabbug, who was a Bishop of the city of Mabbug (Hierapolis) in the early sixth century. These aspects are chosen with reference to the ongoing discussion among theologians of the Chalcedonian and non-Chalcedonian Orthodox traditions regarding the Person, Nature, and Will of Christ.

This learned Syrian theologian (c 440-500) and his works have been studied in more detail in the massive work of Fr. Andre De Halleux of Louvain1.  His importance in the post-Chalcedonian Christological controversy is second only to that of Severius of Antioch, though he is definitely much less known in the West.

For Philoxenos, theology has to transcend sense-experience. It is not simply reflection on the doctrine of Revelation, but is an aspect of radical, ontological transfiguration of man himself by the contemplation of Divine mystery of the incarnation into which he is incorporated by baptism. Theological reflection is thus growth in faith, and growth in Holiness is an indispensable condition for a profound apprehension of the divine mystery.

He starts from the biblical axiom, The Word became flesh, and the Divine Logos is the subject of the incarnation for him throughout. But how to understand this process?

   1.      Who became?
   2.      From where?
   3.      What did he become?
   4.      Why?

These are the four questions to which he applies himself. The question of how he regards as beyond rational comprehension. The wrong ways of understanding he regards as basically adoptionism, Docetism and synousiasm.

Becoming and Assumption

Philoxenos’ problem was this: Did Christ ever exist as only a man? He saw the attempt to speak about two natures as presupposing the existence of a hypostasis of man with human nature; to him it was impossible to conceive of a nature without a hypostasis2. And so he looked with some suspicion on the Christology of his opponents as stating that what God the Word assumed was a full human being with a hypostasis and nature. This meant to him that man became God in Christ. He wanted to affirm the opposite-- God became man in Christ.

He preferred therefore the theology of becoming to that of assumption because assumption meant to him the assuming of “a man other than God”. One can assume only that which existed, but one can become something through a certain event – namely the Word became flesh, remaining Word.

The theophanies of the Old Testament were assumption by God. He assumed the burning bush or the form of the three angels that appeared to Abraham. The difference between the anthropomorphous God in the Old Testament and these in the New Testament is that the former are metaphors, while the latter are mysterious realities. In the bosom of the Virgin, God is contained completely, as man finite and limited. This is the great mystery of the incarnation.

Philoxenos admits that the idea of assumption can also be supported by scripture. Hebrews 2:17 says clearly ov gar depov aggeton epilambanetai, alla spermatos Abraam epilambanetai. But the word assumed the seed of Abraham without change in his own hypostasis, according to Philoxenos.

Becoming: Human and Divine

There is a difference between Divine becoming, and other spatio-temporal becomings we know of. The latter always implies change. But God cannot change. Thus Philoxenos seeks to affirm becoming without change-- passion (suffering) of the unsufferable, death of the immortal. He thus avoids theopaschiansim and Docetism. He affirms Christ’s consubstantiality with us as well as his consubstantiality with God, but the two cannot be confused.

Here, of course, is the perpetual illogicality of the great mystery of the Incarnation, which different formulas can witness to, but no formula can resolve finally.

The immutability of God consists in three fundamental characteristics of God-- His eternity, His perfection, and His freedom.

    Eternity

God can “become” without change because he “existed” without “becoming”. This is the position of Athanasius, Cyril, and Philoxenos. Change belongs to those who exist in time and space, not to the self-existent in eternity.

    Perfection

  He is perfect. He did not become man because He needed something. He did not cease to be God when He became man. The becoming of God does not belong to a class with other becomings. It is something we know from Revelation. He becomes man, not because He needed something, but for us, for our sake, not for Himself. He became, in other words, out of love and not out of necessity. His becoming is a new creative act, of freedom and love.

    Freedom

In other words, He became because He willed so in freedom and love, even as He did in the case of the first creation. The incarnation does not originate in the nature of God, but is His will. It is an aspect of His omnipotence, which is His basic freedom. It is thus not in contradiction with His nature, but neither is it a necessity of His nature. To the possible argument that “God is unchanging, so He cannot become,” Philoxenos replies, “It is God who becomes, so He becomes unchangingly”.

Becoming and the Holy Trinity

The Logos is one of the three hypostases of the Holy Trinity. What happens to all three hypostases, of the same nature3 when one of them becomes? When we say “God the Word” we are not uttering a tautology. God signifies the common nature or ousia, and Word signifies the person or the hypostasis. The first distinguishes God from his creature; the second distinguishes among the persons of the Trinity.

Philoxenos affirms the perfect unity of the Divine ousia in all acts ad extra.

………………………….

Notes

1. Philoxene de Malbog, sa vie, res ecrits sa theologie Louvain imprimerie orientaliste 1963, 571 pages. His discoveries were edited and published with an English translation by E. A. Wallis Budge, London, 1894

2. See especially the letter to the monks of Senoun 9-10 ”Two natures……………are evidently also hypostases for nature considered apart or enumerated cannot but be also hypostasis. If there are two hypostases, as there are two natures, then the conclusion is inescapable that there are also two sons, and therefore also two Gods, “Quoted by Hallen P. 331.

3. Here we notice the confusion in the terms hypostasis, ousia and phusis current in the whole Christological debate. Did Athanasius himself make a clear distinction between the three? Qnumo, the Syriac word for person does not necessarily mean, even in Ephrem, the Syrian hypostasis in the Greek philosophical sense.
   

« Последња измена: Август 07, 2010, 09:45:00 Dionysios » Сачувана

Ходите к Мени сви који сте уморни и натоварени и Ја ћу вас одморити. Узмите јарам Мој на себе и учите се од Мене, јер сам кротак и смирен у срцу и наћићете покој душама својим. Јер, јарам је Мој благ и бреме је Моје лако.
(Mт. 11, 28-29)
Dionysios
Искусан
****
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Пол: Мушкарац
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http://eastofbyzantium.com


« Одговор #237 послато: Август 08, 2010, 10:18:18 »

1.Људска природа Христова
http://forum.verujem.rs/index.php?topic=9830.msg182453#msg182453

2. Тумачење званичне Христолошке изјаве Православне Црве и Оријенталних Православних Цркава
http://forum.verujem.rs/index.php?topic=9830.msg185879#msg185879

3. О двема вољама
http://forum.verujem.rs/index.php?topic=9830.msg187022#msg187022

4. Православна Христологија Севира Антиохијског
http://forum.verujem.rs/index.php?topic=9830.msg191330#msg191330

5. Трагање за јединством источних и оријенталних православаца данас
http://forum.verujem.rs/index.php?topic=9830.msg197953#msg197953

6. Савремено виђење ситуације
http://forum.verujem.rs/index.php?topic=9830.msg203379#msg203379

7. The Council of Constantinople 553 AD
http://forum.verujem.rs/index.php?topic=9830.msg208309#msg208309

8. Saint Severus of Antioch - His Life and His Christology
http://forum.verujem.rs/index.php?topic=9830.msg209429#msg209429

9. Towards a Common Christology
http://forum.verujem.rs/index.php?topic=9830.msg210283#msg210283

10. After Chalcedon - Orthodoxy in the 5th/6th Centuries
http://forum.verujem.rs/index.php?topic=9830.msg210328#msg210328

11. The Oriental Orthodox Rejection of Chalcedon
http://forum.verujem.rs/index.php?topic=9830.msg210334#msg210334

12. Leo and Theodoret, Dioscorus and Eutyches
http://forum.verujem.rs/index.php?topic=9830.msg210465#msg210465

13. HYPOSTASIS IN SEVERUS OF ANTIOCH
http://forum.verujem.rs/index.php?topic=9830.msg210961#msg210961

14. THE ETHIOPIAN ORTHODOX CHURCH AND ITS MONASTIC TRADITION
http://forum.verujem.rs/index.php?topic=9830.msg211548#msg211548

15. Severus of Antioch's objections to the Council of Chalcedon: a re-assessment
http://forum.verujem.rs/index.php?topic=9830.msg211683#msg211683

16. The Christology of Saint Cyril of Alexandria
http://forum.verujem.rs/index.php?topic=9830.msg212705#msg212705

17. Saint Timothy Aelurus of Alexandria
http://forum.verujem.rs/index.php?topic=9830.msg212743#msg212743

18. THE CASE OF IBAS OF EDESSA
http://forum.verujem.rs/index.php?topic=9830.msg212749#msg212749

19. Christology (Христологија Сиријске Маланкарске Православне Цркве)
http://forum.verujem.rs/index.php?topic=9830.msg213221#msg213221

20. Series of Lectures on Christology and Christological Controversies - Lecture 4
http://forum.verujem.rs/index.php?topic=9830.msg237820#msg237820

21. Icons in the Syriac Church?
http://forum.verujem.rs/index.php?topic=9830.msg238312#msg238312

22. The Liturgy of the Ethiopian Church
http://forum.verujem.rs/index.php?topic=9830.msg239814#msg239814

23. The Mystery of the Incarnation
http://forum.verujem.rs/index.php?topic=9830.msg239906#msg239906

24. Statement of the Romanian Orthodox Church on the Theological Dialogue
Decisions of the Holy Synod, Bucharest, Romania, 8-9 December 1994
http://forum.verujem.rs/index.php?topic=9830.msg250136#msg250136

25. A Seventh Century Apology for Images -   
Jeрменска одбрана иконопоштовања
http://forum.verujem.rs/index.php?topic=9830.msg263962#msg263962

26. An Introduction to the Divine Liturgy of the Armenian Apostolic Church
http://forum.verujem.rs/index.php?topic=9830.msg267738#msg267738

27. Coptic Christology in Practice
Incarnation and Divine Participation in Late Antique and Medieval Egypt
http://forum.verujem.rs/index.php?topic=9830.msg267754#msg267754

28. Збирка писама Севера Антиохијског
http://forum.verujem.rs/index.php?topic=9830.msg258859#msg258859

29. Ипостас по Северу Антиохијском (превод текста бр.13) ново
1.део http://forum.verujem.rs/index.php?topic=9830.msg269600#msg269600
2.део http://forum.verujem.rs/index.php?topic=9830.msg269632#msg269632

30. Lecture II: The Nature of Our Lord Jesus Christ
Our Faith Concerning Christology:
http://forum.verujem.rs/index.php?topic=9830.msg270413#msg270413

31. Image Worship in Armenia and Its Opponents*
http://forum.verujem.rs/index.php?topic=9830.msg274114#msg274114

32. The Council of Chalcedon 451 AD - Contemporary View of the Situation
http://forum.verujem.rs/index.php?topic=9830.msg275512#msg275512

33. Из записника са Халкидонског Сабора 1
http://forum.verujem.rs/index.php?topic=9830.msg276424#msg276424
http://forum.verujem.rs/index.php?topic=9830.msg276425#msg276425
http://forum.verujem.rs/index.php?topic=9830.msg276835#msg276835

34. ST. CYRIL'S "ONE PHYSIS OR HYPOSTASIS OF GOD THE LOGOS INCARNATE" AND CHALCEDON
http://forum.verujem.rs/index.php?topic=9830.msg277110#msg277110

35. Из записника са Халкидонског Сабора 2
http://forum.verujem.rs/index.php?topic=9830.msg279641#msg279641
http://forum.verujem.rs/index.php?topic=9830.msg279672#msg279672

36. Armenian Christmass
http://forum.verujem.rs/index.php?topic=9830.msg284362#msg284362

37. Severus - Letter I
OF THE SAME A LETTER TO OECUMENIUS THE COUNT, ABOUT PROPERTIES AND OPERATIONS, WHICH IS OF THOSE WRITTEN BEFORE EPISCOPACY.  [508-12 AD]
http://forum.verujem.rs/index.php?topic=9830.msg286217#msg286217

38. Severus - Letter II
OF THE SAME THE SECOND LETTER TO THE SAME OECUMENIUS THE COUNT UPON THE SAME MATTER, AND IT IS AMONG THOSE WRITTEN DURING EPISCOPACY. [513-8.]
http://forum.verujem.rs/index.php?topic=9830.msg286219#msg286219

39. FROM A LETTER OF THE BLESSED DIOSCORUS THE ARCHBISHOP OF ALEXANDRIA,
WRITTEN FROM EXILE IN GANGRA, TO THE MONKS OF THE HENNATON :
http://forum.verujem.rs/index.php?topic=9830.msg286220#msg286220

40. Armenian Church Councils
http://forum.verujem.rs/index.php?topic=9830.msg289223#msg289223

41. The Christology of Philoxenos of Mabbug
http://forum.verujem.rs/index.php?topic=9830.msg295833#msg295833
Сачувана

Ходите к Мени сви који сте уморни и натоварени и Ја ћу вас одморити. Узмите јарам Мој на себе и учите се од Мене, јер сам кротак и смирен у срцу и наћићете покој душама својим. Јер, јарам је Мој благ и бреме је Моје лако.
(Mт. 11, 28-29)
Dionysios
Искусан
****
Ван мреже Ван мреже

Пол: Мушкарац
Поруке: 730


http://eastofbyzantium.com


« Одговор #238 послато: Август 10, 2010, 11:16:37 »


Иначе зна ли ко нешто више о контактима Православне и Јерменске Цркве током 12.века у доба цара Мануила Комнина и јерменског католикоса Нерсеса Шнорхалија (за Јермене: св.Нерсес Благодатни)?
http://forum.verujem.rs/index.php?topic=9830.msg197959#msg197959

Током Средњег века, могло се чути неколико помирљивих гласова. Посебно је вредан помена св. Нерсес Дивни, који је у 12.веку започео врло обећавајуће разговоре са византијским дидаскалом Теорианом, челником патријаршијске школе и амбасадором цара Манојла Комнина. Св.Нерсес се сложио да је постојало јединство вере и поред Халкидона. Он пише: „У халкидонском Оросу не налазим ништа што је против Православне вере и запањен сам тиме што су они пре нас толико снажно супротстављали њему. [15] Он је успео да мирно објасни литургијске разноликости које су одликовале Цркве. На пример поводом Трисветог, он запажа: „било да се то пева Светој Тројици, као што ви радите, било само Сину, као што ми чинимо, и једни и други су угодни Богу, уколико певају без свађе.“ [16] Нажалост, иницијативе за уједињење у време св.Нерсеса нису уродиле плодом: нити су Vartabeds у источној Јерменији журили са одговором, нити су константинопољски „чувари Православља“ били претерано одушевљени царевим екуменистичким иницијативама усмереним било ка Јерменима, било ка Латинима. [17] Можда још важније, након битке код Мириокефалона  1176. године нестају и последњи остаци византијске превласти у источној Анадолији, чиме се губе било какве предности које би уједињење донело обема странама.

Eво одговора.

But the most important theological exchange between the two churches took place in the twelfth century 72: first, the exchanges began, not by the imposition of the Council of Chalcedon, but by questioning the Armenian doctrine. In early 1165, Nerses the Gracious had a discussion with the brother of the Emperor Manuel Comnenus, the differences between Armenian and Byzantine churches. By putting Nerses the questionnaire prepared by the Greek archimandrites Alexis asked them to take their conversation by writing. Nerses the Gracious prepared and sent the statement of faith of the Armenian Church, in two parts. The first part relates to the Holy Trinity, and the second, the ritual of the Armenian Church. This text was sent to the emperor Manuel, who, after reading jointly with the Patriarch Luke (1156-1169), decided that this text could serve as a basis for uniting the two churches. Saint Nerses also sent a letter to the emperor, formed in two parts, one on the doctrine, the other on the Church's tradition.

The nineteenth-century Russian theologian Troitsky, analyzing the statement of faith in the Armenian Church of St. Nerses the Gracious, the summarized 73
1 / Nerses the Gracious defines incarnation as the union of two natures, divine and human, as the Council of Chalcedon.
2 / With the Orthodox Church, he acknowledges that the flesh of Jesus Christ is the same type as the flesh of the Virgin Mary, which means human flesh. The view of Nerses the Gracious is nothing common to that of Eutyches and Monophysite who say that the flesh of Christ is not the same as human flesh.
3 / In accordance with the Orthodox Church, Nerses the Gracious recognizes that the qualities unique to the two natures are kept fully in the union. This means that denies the confusion of natures.
4 / In accordance with the Orthodox Church, Nerses the Gracious acknowledges kinds of communication.
5 / In accordance with the Orthodox Church condemns Eutyches Nerses the Gracious and Monophysite.

In a second letter, Nerses the Gracious specifies the conditions necessary for the union of two churches: it must be done not in master and servant, but as equals on the basis of Scripture and of Sacred Tradition. The Patriarch Michael III (1165-1177) and Emperor in 1172 responded by proposing nine points from which the union would be possible 74:
1 / anathematized those who confess one nature, Eutyches, and Severus of Antioch Timothy 75.
2 / Confessing Christ in a person, two natures, two wills, two actions.
3 / Celebrate Christmas, the Annunciation and the Holy Encounter with the Byzantines 76.
4 / Singing Trisagion without the "crucified for us' 77.
5 / Prepare the Holy Myrrh with olive oil.
6 / Use for the Eucharist on sourdough bread, and mix it with wine 78.
7 / During the liturgy, keep the people in the Church and not in the narthex, with the exception of penitents 79.
8 / Accept the decisions of the 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th councils.
9 / To confirm the election of the Catholicos by the emperor.

As you can see, it was less for the Byzantine Church to recognize the orthodoxy of the confession of faith of the Armenian Church, than to impose the terms of the Byzantine Orthodox confession of faith. Saint Nerses, Catholicos and already disappointed by this response compelling, "said the envoys of the emperor and the patriarch he could only take such a decision. A council met in 1179 under the Catholicos Gregory IV in the city Hromkla and condemned both monophysism and diphysisme 80.


Из текста LE DIALOGUE ENTRE L'EGLISE ORTHODOXE ET LES EGLISES ORIENTALES ANCIENNES : L'EGLISE APOSTOLIQUE ARMENIENNE који представља одговор на текст Жан Клода Ларшеа. Иначе, превод на енглески урађен је гугл транслејтом пошто је оригинал чланак на француском
http://eocf.free.fr/text_dialogue_armenie.htm
« Последња измена: Август 10, 2010, 11:17:17 Dionysios » Сачувана

Ходите к Мени сви који сте уморни и натоварени и Ја ћу вас одморити. Узмите јарам Мој на себе и учите се од Мене, јер сам кротак и смирен у срцу и наћићете покој душама својим. Јер, јарам је Мој благ и бреме је Моје лако.
(Mт. 11, 28-29)
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« Одговор #239 послато: Август 12, 2010, 09:39:22 »

Ево нечег веома занимљивог: текстови једног Копта који је недавно пришао Православној Цркви:

Becoming Orthodox
http://www.pravmir.com/article_946.html
http://www.pravmir.com/article_963.html

The History and Development of the Orthodox-Oriental Dialogue
http://www.pravmir.com/article_1052.html
Сачувана

Ходите к Мени сви који сте уморни и натоварени и Ја ћу вас одморити. Узмите јарам Мој на себе и учите се од Мене, јер сам кротак и смирен у срцу и наћићете покој душама својим. Јер, јарам је Мој благ и бреме је Моје лако.
(Mт. 11, 28-29)
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